Arkansas basketball wins big

[00:00:00] Speaker A: You're listening to the Whole Hog Sports podcast. And now here's your host, Matt Jones. [00:00:06] Speaker B: On today's show, we'll talk Razorback basketball. They win their season opener last night over Southern. We'll also have some Razorback football coaching search talk. First, a word from Kendall King. Kendall King, we're proud of over four decades of design. We're continuing the legacy of great creative design by combining our brands of Kendall King, Soapbox and Shopcart. Together, these brands represent a new focus in marketing design with individual attention to specific areas. Through our design expertise, supported by a team of talented professionals, we showcase our best. We are Kendall King. We are Soapbox. We are Shopcart. We are design. Arkansas basketball got off to a great start last night, beating Southern 109 to 77 at Bud Walton Arena. Arkansas 1 and. Oh, and now you get to turn your attention to Michigan State, the big game this weekend up in East Lansing. We'll preview that game later in the week. Ethan Westerman's in here with me now. He was at the game. I was not at this game. And I'll be honest with you, I didn't see a whole lot. Thanks to War Machine. I was able to see the highlights from the game. But, you know, I got in the. I was doing a high school game last night, a ninth grade, and I got in the truck after the game and I turned the radio on and it's like early second half and Arkansas's up 35, close to 40 points somewhere in there. And it's like, okay, well, you know, this is going about the way that I thought it would go. And I'm not surprised by that. I think that, you know, we talked on the show yesterday about when you beat Cincinnati the way they did in the preseason, they beat Memphis the way they did did in the preseason. The expectation is there that you're going to really hand it to Southern. And I think it would have been disappointing if they would have come out of last night's game by, you know, only winning by 14 points or 16 points or something like that. The fact that they went out and they just clobbered them, what is like 15 to 3, I think early on in the game, like, they never gave this chance, this team a chance to even breathe in this game. And that's what you want to see with when you've got expectations for a team like people have for Arkansas against a team like Southern, who I know John Calipari said he thinks they're going to win the swac. Okay, well, there's a big difference between a high end SWAC team and a high end team. I just thought that this was the type of performance again based on the, you know what I was able to see from it and obviously looking at the box score that you would hope to have against a team like Southern on night one. [00:02:24] Speaker C: Exactly. And I think that it's a team that they're good enough. Like this is not a bad Southern team. Like he's like Coach Calipari said, pick toward the top of their league. I think second could win it. And that's just it. That's the type of game that I mean we've seen some other teams play close games on opening night. Like I know Auburn was in a battle with Bethune. Cookman went to overtime. [00:02:46] Speaker B: Right? [00:02:46] Speaker C: Went to overtime. They sure did. Like and you're just supposed to. Whenever you're the superior team and you're playing a team that's good in a lower conference, it's impressive in my opinion just to handle them because those are the type of teams that you could meet in the NCAA tournament, albeit you know, a first round game or whatever. But you are the superior team. You should just handle them. And I think it's really a testament to Arkansas being healthy this year and having more ramp up time with the whole team to be you know, a little bit more cohesive. You think back to last year, the start of their year, that was what was probably most concerning in the non conferences. And some of those games, you know I think of Little Rock, I know even the Pacific game there for a little bit was close last. They just weren't handling teams how they were supposed to. Instead it after the Memphis game, this team just should with the talent and athleticism be able to absolutely pull away from a lot of these non conference teams on the schedule. So I think last night it was just a, a matter of they did it. And the good thing was they actually, I know it's. They won by whatever the, the final margin was. They were up by 37 at one point. But they. There was still stuff to learn from that game too. [00:03:52] Speaker B: Carter Knox didn't play that. That was one I guess non healthy element to this game. What's going on with him and do you think he'll be available for Michigan State on Saturday? [00:04:05] Speaker C: Yeah, to be determined I think on if he's available for Michigan State. But it's a toe sprain according you know, to a team spokesperson. That doesn't seem too concerning to me. And the vibe that I got it was that it wasn't all that concerning and I just think that if you're playing a team like Southern and you should beat them, it's probably smartest ahead of a ranked matchup. If, if Carter Knox could play on Saturday to just sit him at least in my head, I mean you've seen what he's did against Memphis and Cincinnati already. It's you. It's not like a player who has to go out there and prove himself. You know that once he's inserted back in the lineup he makes a difference. But yeah, not, not sure exact timeline on his return, but it doesn't seem to me to be like a real long term thing. [00:04:49] Speaker B: Caliper did say that if he's only 70% going up to the Michigan State game, he may not play him because he don't want him playing at that level of himself against a team as good as Michigan State. Some takeaways. You look at the box score, Trevin Brazile, 25 points, 11 rebounds and you know, the thing that stands out to me about him is that he just looks like a totally different player. There was a lot of talk during the off season about how much stronger he had gotten. You can see that in him. But you. I think the biggest thing that happened for Trevin Brazile was late last season when he had that was it six, eight game stretch at the end of the season where he just kind of, it kind of like you just felt like, hey, it clicked for him. He can and maybe, and maybe in his mind is like, hey, I can do this. I can take over a game the way everybody thought that I could. And maybe it took him that long to get comfortable with the knee and the rehab and you know, everything that had happened as a result of that injury. But it's like once that light came on last year, based on the very small sample size that we have this season and all of the reports that were coming out of practice, it just feels like he is in line for a big breakout season. [00:06:01] Speaker C: Yeah. And you think about it, this is a guy who last night was his 11th double double of his college career. Five of those have come in this, this calendar year. Four of them at the end of end of the 2025 season. He was playing his best at the end and then to do this in the season opener, it just seems like a player who's starting to live up to that billing. I know there was injuries mixed in there, a lot of just, you know, up and downs at the early part of his college career at Arkansas, but it seems like a Guy who's just finally where he. He and others thought he could be as far as. I mean, the athleticism is going to jump off the tape for anybody. He can jump over a guy, he jumps out of the. But now it's like he's combined that with a little bit more physicality and I think just confidence. I mean, to shoot 8 of 10 on free throws. And Caliperi credited that to him finally bending his knees, which, you know, I don't know how much validity that is. And it's just one game, you know, it could not be that great of a free throw shooter all season, but I mean, for. For one night he got to the free throw line a lot and he was efficient there. So it's that free throws are totally a sign of confidence. In my opinion, almost every time you see a player's free throw percentage increase, it's directly translated to they're just a more confident player and maybe not overthinking things. Went to a practice in the summer and it was just noticeable that he had, I mean, he was up in weight, I think 10 pounds from the end of the season before, and it was all like, muscle. So I talked to Dave Richardson after that practice. Dave Richardson's their head, strength and conditioning. And he said to me that it's just. He feels like Trevor Brazil is just taking things more seriously now, which there's a lot to be said for that, that, you know, players mature over their career. And I think that maybe sometimes later in their careers, whenever they realize how important like their physical well being is toward everything else. I mean, the better you feel, the better you play. [00:07:53] Speaker B: Did you bend your knees when you shot free throws? [00:07:55] Speaker C: I hope I did. I really. I'm trying to picture like a free throw without bending them at all. Yeah, that's going through here. [00:08:01] Speaker B: Like, what was your free throw rhythm like? Everybody's got their own free throw rhythm, you know, like mine was bounce, bounce, bounce, spin, spin, shoot. [00:08:10] Speaker C: One, two, three. I'm like having to do this muscle memory, man. One, two, three, spin, bounce, shot. There's some players like their free throw rhythm. There was a player for the women's team a couple years ago who she started on the bounce from the official. Just shoot it right away because that's what she was most natural for her. And her free throw percentage went up like 20% from the year before or something like that. Like, it's so crazy how free throws just need to be something that your brain and your muscle are like all lined on and you have to. There's a thing about free throws. You just have to kind of turn your brain off. In my opinion. It's just a, there's like a level of focus, but also a level of like. [00:08:47] Speaker B: It's like muscle. [00:08:48] Speaker C: Don't focus too. [00:08:49] Speaker B: Muscle memory. That's all a free throw is, is muscle memory. And you either have it or you don't. [00:08:53] Speaker C: Yeah. And also it's, it's. It was good for the team last night to do what they did from the line in front of fans because that was one of the things that stood out from their tip off tour in Hot Springs is it was their first time to, you know, do anything in front of fans this year and they were not shooting free throws well. I think Trevor Brazil like barely hit the rim on one of them down there and Cal Perry was not pleased with it and he, he mentioned after that like that's what happens when you put people in front of fans. Like that's why we need to have exhibitions. That's why we need to have this type of event. And then last night I think they were 25, 20, 29. That's a really good percentage and so a lot to be pleased with. I think from an offensive perspective last night the three point percentage was really good for most of the game it was. Got up to 8 of 13 after Malik Thomas hit his second three from the corner right in front of the bench. And then it just seemed like they started just taking shots. Just. It almost felt like they. I think Cal Perry called it summer basketball. It's like when they started playing they started missing some threes so their percentage ended up being 36% but I really don't feel like that was indicative of what we saw for most of the game. This team I think shoots it a lot better than last year and you. [00:09:55] Speaker B: Know, he had to be so happy with that. You know, it's like you win by 32 points but you've got something that you can be angry about afterward that you can get on them in practice now. [00:10:04] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:10:04] Speaker B: And get their attention. [00:10:05] Speaker C: Threes both ways. I think he was not pleased with giving up. Southern was 12 of 27. They had a guy. [00:10:11] Speaker B: I'm some transition threes that. [00:10:13] Speaker C: Oh show they're hard to guard. Yeah, he was, he was good for them from three. Um, they. That's a team that I think is going to be able to score the ball in their league. They, they showed it offensively and Arkansas had a, they were playing a great defensive game until they weren't. It felt like it just felt like, yeah, it started turning into a little bit of that summer basketball that I don't think Caliperi was all too pleased with. But I do think Southern. That was the beauty of it, is that there were teaching points. Even in a win by this much. [00:10:41] Speaker B: You got the freshman playing really well. Acuff, 22 points, two rebounds, four assists. Malik Thomas, 21 points, six rebounds, seven assists. I mean, what can you say about what these guys are doing? [00:10:55] Speaker C: They're Caliperi freshmen. It's just like it. It jumps out whenever you're at the game. They're just so talented. Malik Thomas is going to be electric for this team. I think all year, his shot is just a pretty thing to watch. And then Darius Acuff, what was impressive about him was toward the end of the first half, he just got it enough in a hurry. He just poured it on them in like the three or so minutes right before the half, had 20 points at halftime. So really impressive stuff from them. And if you're Arkansas with Darius Acuff, you have to be feeling pretty good about the decision to. I mean, it seems from all accounts it was a mutual. With Boogie Fland of like, go in the portal. Find somewhere else. [00:11:33] Speaker B: Boogie's talked a little bit of. What would be the word. [00:11:37] Speaker C: It's. [00:11:37] Speaker B: I don't. I don't want to sound too. [00:11:39] Speaker C: It's hard to read too much into it because you need more context. But he did say something about, like, he feels more of like a family vibe or something at Florida, which, you know, whatever. But it did rub people some the wrong way. And then last night, you know, it's just. He had a shot to tie the game for Florida late and missed a wide open three. And it's just. I don't know, it's. You see these two freshmen for Arkansas, and it's. If Boogie Flanders in the mix, I think Darius Acuff is probably still getting a whole lot of minutes because he's so talented. [00:12:10] Speaker B: Last year, the whole season changed. We all thought the season was going to go just totally in the tank. And it was already getting close to being there when he got hurt, hurt his hand. And it's like, what are they going to do? Well, then you put D.J. wagner at point guard, and it's like, wow, they're better off with him there than they were with Boogie. And so sometimes there's addition by subtraction, and I think that's what Arkansas got with losing Boogie. [00:12:33] Speaker C: Yeah. And I think that this year, you know, you throw Darius sake of into the point Guard role most time and you have him on the court with D.J. wagner at the same time and things are still. I mean, granted all we've seen is a couple exhibition games and then this game against Southern last night. But things are just flowing how they should. The offense, there's no concerns right now from what we've seen. And last year, yeah, there was that pairing on the court at the same time. It just didn't boogie playing or DJ playing off the ball. It just didn't work. Well, I feel like this year there's a little bit more. Just more cohesion there between whenever he's on the court with Acuff. And DJ Wagner is kind of this player right now for Arkansas that it's. It's like I think he's going to be an unsung hero for a lot of the year because he does a lot of things right, but he's not. He's kind of fading into the mix with the talent level of these freshmen and some of the bigs, what they're doing. It just feels like he's that guy that is K. He's a capable scorer, but he's going to just be important all year with defense. You know, his assist numbers not turning it over. He just needs to kind of be that glue for this team, I think. [00:13:35] Speaker B: And I think he's okay being that player. Like. Like, I don't think there's an ego there to where he has to be the guy that's scoring 15, 20 points every game. [00:13:43] Speaker C: Yeah, no, the coaches talk all the time about it. The DJ Wagner is one of their favorite players they've ever coached and that's not coming from like a on the court thing. Of course there's a lot to like there, but I think that's just more of who he is as a teammate. So I like what I. Their guard play right now has been excellent and I think that D.J. wagner, I mean he scored eight points last night and he could have had a lot more. He missed some threes, but I think that you've got a mix of players who all are capable of putting up. [00:14:10] Speaker B: Big scoring numbers stat going around today. Malik Thomas and Darius Acuff with 21 and 22 respectively. So maybe the better way to say it is Darius Acuff and Malik Thomas with 22 and 21 points. Just the second and third freshmen in the last 50 years to score at least 20 points in their first game. Patrick Beverly had 29 for Arkansas back in November of 2006. That's not bad company. [00:14:32] Speaker C: No I must say, that guy played in the league. Might still. [00:14:36] Speaker B: He might be still playing. [00:14:37] Speaker C: Yeah. I haven't really heard a whole lot recently, but I mean, these are two players that are on a path to be. I mean, I don't think we'll be seeing them in Budwalton arena next year. [00:14:48] Speaker B: No, I don't think so either. And like, they, they look. I'm not going to say they look NBA ready right now, but like, they look like what you see coming into the NBA. A lot of times they look, they look totally different than the freshmen that we've seen come through here in the past. [00:15:04] Speaker C: Yeah, there's just something different about them and that's. It's just clear. Malik Thomas and Darius Akov both can just go get a bucket. And that's. The Calipari freshman mold is just a guy who can change the game. So I think that between those two and then the whole complement of capable scores, Arkansas is that team this year that's going to, I think, have a lot of different leading scorers and games just based off matchup, based off who's hot that night. But I don't think like, like, say Darius Acuff isn't taking all those shots. Like, I mean, I think somebody else could step up and fill that scoring void. So I just think that this team is pretty balanced up and down. [00:15:44] Speaker B: And how about Isaiah Seely? Didn't know. You're going to see a whole lot from him last night. 17 minutes, he scores 12 points, made all of his free throws, 6 of 6, made half his shots. He's kind of, he's, he's at wild card right now where it felt like Carter Knox. And I know he's, he's like, Knox being off the floor is not the reason that Celia was on the floor more. But, you know, as you get the opportunity to play more minutes, maybe that's the best way to say it. He just had more opportunity to play minutes last night just because of how the game went. It feels to me like when I've watched him and he's gotten his chances, whether it be in the exhibitions or this game last night, that he just, he makes the most of his minutes. And that's going to be one of those things that I think will get you more minutes in the future. [00:16:28] Speaker C: And he, you know, the concerns right now, I think for him are some defensive things of just. I'm not seeing exactly what Caliper he's seeing, but there's some stuff there that calm. [00:16:39] Speaker B: It's not for a lack of hustle. [00:16:40] Speaker C: Yeah, he. He hustles hard. I think it's maybe just sometimes like communication, being in the right spot, that sort of stuff. But that's what Calipari says is holding him back. But I think that's why even if Carter Knox doesn't play Saturday, which, I mean, all Arkansas F, everybody wants to see him play against Michigan State. But say he doesn't. I don't think it's the worst thing in the world for Isaiah Sealy to get more minutes than usual because of the rotation being a little bit shorter early in the year against a good team because he's a guy that some point down the road this season, I guarantee you, based on how things are going, you'll need him. I don't. You don't know what game it'll be, what. Who's fouled out of a game, who's might be out for a week or so or longer with injury. But there will be a time in the season, I think you will be all of a sudden counting on Isaiah Sealy to be ready to step up and be in a position to really contribute. And so far, he's not given any reason to think that he can't do that. So, you know all three of your. Your main freshmen, I know they have a few at the end of the bench, but that are in your rotation, all scored in double figures in their openers. So Arkansas has got to be pleased with the young talent that they have. I mean, you look at this team and it's very young up, down the board. I mean, you have two really old guys with Trevin Brazil and Nick Pringle, but the guard play. DJ Wagner is kind of the vet there as a junior. It's just a young team mixed with some experience that I'm sure helps kind of right the ship. [00:18:04] Speaker B: Looking around the SEC last night, Florida, the only team that lost, that was really kind of the only good game in the sec too. And in terms of a good matchup, Florida lost Arizona 93 to 87 on night one. We mentioned that Auburn kind of squeaked by Bethune Cookman in the first game of the Stephen Pearl era. There's three games tonight, North Carolina A and T. Is it South Carolina? Nichols goes to Kentucky. And then the big game tonight, Texas is at Duke. [00:18:31] Speaker C: Yeah, there's. I love this time of year where like sometimes it can get overwhelming and I think like January, February, with a ton of really good games on the same day. Right now, it's kind of how the schedules. You have that one game that everybody's locked in on. Last night, of course, it was Florida, Arizona, Texas, Duke tonight. I think that this time of year it just gives you an opportunity to really hone in on those big time matchups. That's why like people love to see big matchups in non conference too. I think it's just good for the sport to have games that can get it really hyped up early. [00:19:02] Speaker B: Texas plays Duke. That's in Charlotte. It's not, it's not at Duke. It's going to be in Charlotte. So it's going to be kind of like a home game for Duke, but not quite. That's going to be at the Hornets home arena tonight. Ethan, appreciate you being here. When we come back, Christina Long's going to join me. We'll talk Razorback football. But first, a word from Kendall King. Kendall King, we're proud of over four decades of design. We're continuing the legacy of great creative design by combining our brands of Kendall King Soapbox and Shopcart. Together, these brands represent a new focus in marketing design with individual attention to specific areas. Through our design expertise, supported by a team of talented professionals, we showcase our best. We are Kendall King. We are Soapbox. We are Shopcart. We are Design. Hey, welcome back. Want to tell you about our friends at Bentonville Glass. They've been serving their community since 1971. They are committed, professional and versatile. If you're looking for a quality leader in northwest Arkansas or looking for skilled craftsmanship, look no further than Bentonville Glass for all your glass market needs with the highest quality products. You can come by and see them now at 507 South Main in Bentonville or online at Bentonville Glass. Christina Long is in studio with me now and we were talking just a second ago about this story that Tom Brady had cloned his dog. Like, like, would you clone your dog? [00:20:16] Speaker A: I don't think so. I don't think I would clone anything. I mean, I love my dog. Yeah, but I don't think I would clone him. [00:20:22] Speaker B: Our dog is she's almost 12. She's a lab. Although she's kind, I'm quite certain that she is a chocolate lab beagle mix. And the only reason I say this is because we took her to the vet one year. She cut up her paw and they were going to look at the paw and she lets out this yelp and the vet says, that's weird. I've only heard a beagle make that noise before. And then everything just like clicks. When we picked her up, it was from A farm that on this side of the driveway had labs and on this side of the driveway had beagles. And so we're sitting at the Weddington Veterinary Hospital, and I pull out my phone. I'm like, chocolate lab beagle. And there's a picture, and it looks just like her. [00:21:03] Speaker A: So funny. [00:21:04] Speaker B: And so. But I don't think I would. I don't think I would do that. I don't think I would clone my dog. No, I don't think I'm almost at this point with her because she. Again, she's. She's gonna be 12 this month. That I'm kind of like low key waiting for her to. [00:21:17] Speaker A: I can't believe you're gonna admit this on a microphone. [00:21:19] Speaker B: It's a dog. [00:21:20] Speaker A: I know it's. Yeah, you love your dog, but you're ready for her to die. [00:21:24] Speaker B: I'm not ready for her die. I'm just ready for something new. And I don't want to have two dogs. [00:21:30] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, like, that I can understand. [00:21:32] Speaker B: Like, I think people get. [00:21:33] Speaker A: I. I have heard that from people with dogs before. [00:21:36] Speaker B: Yes. I was gonna say, I think people with older dogs. I think people with older dogs understand this, that once your dog gets a little bit older, like, you are very sad to see them get older. Although mine still acts like she's two. But on. On the other hand, it's like you just. You get it. [00:21:52] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Our dog is three. He's very much, very puppy like. I think he'll be puppy like for a very long time. He's. We have no idea what he is. We got. We adopted him from the Springdale Animal Shelter. Not a guess as to what's in there, but he's great. [00:22:05] Speaker B: Anyway, I don't know how we got there. We were gonna talk about football. [00:22:08] Speaker A: Tom Brady. [00:22:08] Speaker B: It's Tom Brady. There's the football connection. [00:22:10] Speaker A: It's insane. I hadn't actually seen that yet today. [00:22:12] Speaker B: But yeah, he said. [00:22:13] Speaker A: He said he took interesting Tom Brady. [00:22:15] Speaker B: Head, I think he. And it's like this bio. This some sort of lab that he has kind of thing Tom Brady financials stake into. He has a financial stake in it. And they took blood from his old dog before it died. Cloned it. And here comes the new dog. And, you know, it's kind of like Tom Brady. It still looks the same now as it did 20 years ago. Raise your back. Football. It's a good segue. Right? So we've held off talking a whole lot about the coaching search. You know, Sam Pittman was fired September 27th. And we've touched on other coaching, other coaching openings, vacancies elsewhere and kind of how they affect our Arkansas in the big picture. But you know, it's a bye week. We're in November. We're probably within about a month of somebody new being hired. I would think you've got the signing period that's like mid to late December. The portal season this year is different. It doesn't start until January. So there's a little bit of extra time to get somebody in the saddle, so to speak, before all of that happens. And that's as important as anything. I think the port, the portal part of this in terms of the recruiting. So I was thinking today, you know, right after Pittman was fired, we sat here and we talked about if you were the ad, what would you be looking for in the next head coach? And kind of having that same talk today. But I think maybe my, my view on this has evolved a little bit. So let's rewind, you know, back about six weeks. I can't make a good rewind noise. I could do like that trash truck. You know, the sound that they make whenever somebody gets a penalty at a football game. Like I watch games with my son. He'll, there's the trash truck. You know, he'll hear it on the tv. But rewind about six weeks ago and here's what I said there. There were two things that I said. I thought Arkansas should be looking for somebody with head coaching experience, like almost. I think I said that's a non negotiable. And then I said out of that I would want someone who was either established that they could win somewhere else for a period of time or someone who has had coaching experience and has been a coordinator in the sec. And I still think that there are elements of that that inform what I'd be looking for. But if I were putting on my ad hat today and keep in mind some of these names were saying I don't know that they've got any interest in Arkansas or Arkansas's got any interest in them. I'm just saying like if I were an AD and I were starting my search today, these are kind of some of the qualifications or some of the characteristics that I would be looking for. And what I keep coming back to, Christina, is you look at Arkansas, where they are in the SEC in the pecking order down, you know, at the bottom of the conference right now, and so I would be looking number one. I don't think that they are going to poach a sitting head coach away from another SEC school. I'd be very surprised if they do. I don't know that there'll be seven coaches left at SEC schools before the season ends at the rate that everybody's getting fired. So I looked at other conferences, like, what are some schools in the Big Ten, other power conferences in the ACC, in the Big 12 that are kind of like Arkansas from, you know, maybe a geography standpoint, a population standpoint, where they fit in the hierarchy in their conference. And so these are some of the names that I came up with if I'm looking for a program builder. Because that. That's kind of the thing that I keep coming back to now is like, who is a program builder? Who is somebody who has gone in and they took over what might have not been a very pretty situation, and they have built the program into something more respectable. Maybe not a great program, but a program that, you know, you get to the game week against this team and you say, don't really look forward to playing them every year. So here's what I've got. Let's start in the Big Ten because this is a name that's getting thrown around. P.J. fleck at Minnesota. You look at Minnesota and again, please keep in mind that this. I'm not saying that any of these people are candidates or that this is who I would go for. This is who I would go for. I'm just saying, like, if I were an AD and I were sitting down and kind of coming up with names, these are some names I would jot down and say, I want to learn more about that person. So you look at Fleck at Minnesota. They are number one. Minnesota in the Big Ten is not a good job. They've had, I think, between 19 or between 2006 and when he came in in 2018 or 2017, they'd had five coaches very similar to Arkansas in the coaching turnover there. None of them had winning records. And you go back, you look at Minnesota, the last coach who even had a record above.500 during his tenure there was Glenn Mason from 1997 to 2006. Flight goes in there. Not a great year one, but then year two, they kind of turn it around. They win seven games. And then since then, they have consistently been a program that has won eight or more games a year. There have been some blips in there where they haven't won a couple six. [00:27:20] Speaker A: Wins, but mostly nine. I'm looking at right now. There's 11 win season eight, Covid year three and four. Throw that one out. You know, five and seven, seven and six, 11 and two, skip Covid, nine and four, nine and four, six and seven, eight and five, six and three. [00:27:33] Speaker B: They're six and three this year. They've got Oregon, Northwestern, Wisconsin and a bowl game. I think there's a decent chance that they could get to, you know, another eight win season, maybe even better. So again, they're like, if I were looking at the Big Ten, that would be a program that I look at. Because you look at Minnesota, like in the Big Ten, you just rattle off like the teams that, you know, have more resources than Minnesota, Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State, Nebraska, Southern Cal, Oregon for sure, those six. And you probably, you know, you would say Washington probably, Wisconsin probably, Michigan State probably, Iowa maybe. And so, you know, they're, they're in the, they're in the lower half of the hierarchy in that conference. So that would be a name that I would look at in the Big Ten. Again, what I'm trying to do is I'm just saying these names, like, they may not be the most attractive names, but would you rather win the press conference or would you rather win the, you know, like, have a winning football team long term? [00:28:32] Speaker A: I have been thinking about this a lot because something that I feel like is coming up a lot. You know, I read through a lot of the discussion on our message board about various coaching candidates and who people want or what kind of coach profile people want. And something that I think comes up a lot is, well, that guy's not going to open. Get people to open their wallets or people aren't going to. And I think the idea, I think sometimes what people mean when they say that is, you know, the, the big name, the splash higher. And I just don't think Arkansas is going to have that here. And I think, I don't think they need to. I don't think you necessarily need, you know, obviously they, they need people to want to donate that. We've talked at length on this podcast about the financial situation, all that. Of course you need. So many people are going to want to donate to. You do not need the John Calipari of football in order for people to do that. If you can bring somebody in who can build a program, it's. You have to walk that line between the chicken and egg line of, okay, can you win and that gets you more money, or do you need the money up front in order to win? I think if you can walk that line, if you can get somebody that enough people support and then other people are kind of waiting and Seeing. And then you can get them in the door. You can get some wins under your belt. You can get a little excitement built once you get here. I think that's a good thing. I think you need. I don't think you need Jon Gruden. Okay. Like, Jon Gruden maybe will inspire some barstool fans to open the wallet. Awesome. And then what? You know, and so I think I get into, you know, somebody that might not be, you know, I don't think anybody was looking at Mike Elko as, like, the sexiest name on the coaching carousel. And look how that's going. And look at how they're doing. And, you know, Texas A and M is in a different situation than Arkansas. That's not. You know, it's. It's not. [00:30:08] Speaker B: But he fits. One to one. [00:30:09] Speaker A: He does. [00:30:10] Speaker B: He fits like. Like, he fits Texas A and M in a lot of ways. Number one, he had been there. And so he gets it. You know, whenever they start doing their whoops and sawing off the horns and everything, like, it doesn't scare the bejesus out of them. He gets it. And that's where I keep coming back to Arkansas. Like, what would a fit at Arkansas be? Because that's a word that I keep coming back to. I feel like a fit at Arkansas is someone who has demonstrated that at a high level in a power conference, they can do more with less. And I understand people who are hate hearing that. They absolutely hate hearing that. But if you're Arkansas, you're never going to be able to compete financially with Texas, Alabama, Georgia, those types of teams. Like, there's probably seven or eight teams that are sitting right up here that you, you know, like, maybe if you win four straight SEC championships, you'll get up to that level, but you're going to have to, you know, you're going to have to punch up for a long time to be able to ever get into the same conversation with those types of teams. And so, like, that's a Elko at A and M. That is a fit. [00:31:11] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:31:12] Speaker B: And, you know, would Fleck fit at Arkansas? I don't know. I mean, there may be some cultural things and stuff like that. Originally, I think he's from the north originally, but, you know, with him, his Minnesota program and this kind of fits a lot of these or some of these coaches. I'm going to talk about his Minnesota program. They remind me a little bit of Houston nuts years here at Arkansas, where they're probably going to get handed to them a time or two a year. They've gotten blown out this year by Ohio State and Iowa, but they're probably going to get you an upset or two a year. They upset Nebraska up in Minneapolis a few weeks back and more often than not, they're going to be a team that is competitive week in and week out again. There may be a time or two every year where they're not but 10, 11 times a year. If you come back and you know, you're kind of analyzing Minnesota, you're going to say, hey, I was pretty happy with the effort they gave that night. [00:32:01] Speaker A: Yeah, I think when we talk about things like this and when we say that, you know, you're not financially comp. You're never going to financially compete with Alabama, Texas, et cetera, I think a lot of thing. I think fans sometimes get frustrated by that because they feel like they're being told to settle. And I don't think you have to settle for like a mid or bad coach. I think you just aren't necessarily, you know, you're not going to get Nick Saban to come out of retirement. I. You can still succeed. You can still. I think you need to look for just a different profile of coach than what Florida is looking for right now, what Auburn's going to be looking for, what Penn State's looking for. That's fine. I'm not saying you have to scrape the bottom of the barrel and get somebody you've never heard of and you don't like. I think you can get a good coach. I just think it's going to look different than, than some of those other schools and I think that's okay. I don't think it has to mean settling. [00:32:48] Speaker B: You think Don Brady's clone company could like get Nick Saban in there? Can we get some blood coach and like, you know, like have 10 of them and then you like go out and you sell him to Penn State and LSU and whoever else. Okay, so here's another coach go to the acc. What isn't. What is a program that would fit this criteria where it's not one of the higher end programs, but it has a coach who has consistently won there. I went with North Carolina State, Dave Doran at North Carolina State. He's on the brink of getting fired, but he's got two big wins this year. They just beat Georgia Tech. [00:33:21] Speaker A: That's what he does. [00:33:22] Speaker B: They're the only team, they're the only team this year that has beaten. And again, I'm not saying that he's the guy, I'm just, yeah, like they're the only team that's beaten Virginia and Georgia Tech this year. [00:33:32] Speaker A: He kind of does this every year where you kind of look and you're like, I don't know about them and maybe this is going to be done. And then they get, they beat some teams they shouldn't and they keep going. [00:33:43] Speaker B: This kind of goes back to what. Remember when Matt Hobbs talked to us last week, he said something along the lines, he said we coach people, not pieces of paper. Well, what I'm looking at here basically is a piece of paper and like a resume. Not necessarily the person, but the resume that might stand out to me. So here's Doran. You look at him at NC State since his first year there, they went 3, 9, didn't win an ACC game since then. 8 and 5, 7 and 6, 7 and 6, 9 and 4, 9 and 4, 4 and 8, 8 and 4, 9 and 3, 8 and 5, 9 and 4, 6 and 7. This year they're 5 and 4 again. Like to me that looks like an interesting resume from someone who is at a program that's not thought to be one of the higher end programs in this conference. [00:34:23] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I think that's a good point. I think looking at his win totals, they've been higher than I would have guessed. But I do think, yeah, it's. They kind of do that thing every year where you're look, it's looking like it might be teetering on the edge and then they, they get some wins, which honestly isn't a bad thing. I think that's kind of a situation that would be. You know, you mentioned earlier when you were talking about PJ Fleck, about them having a team that people see on the schedule and they're like, man, I don't really want to play them. I think that's a good spot. That's a good goal for Arkansas to have is be a team that people just don't want to play. Be a team that people are just a little worried about, that you can get one over on a team that should be better than you. A few times they've done, you know, they, they just haven't really done that with any sort of consistency. And I think that's a reputation that somebody like a Doran or like a Fleck or like some of these other coaches we're talking about has built. And I think that's a good aspiration. [00:35:10] Speaker B: Here's one. Big 12, Matt Campbell @ Iowa State. And he's always the guy that everybody wants, but you look at him first year, 3 and 9 since then, 8 and 5, 8 and 5, 7 and 6, 9 and 3, 7 and 6, 4 and 8, 7 and 6, 11 and 3, 5 and 4. They played for the Big 12 Championship two times during that span. I don't think they won either one of them. And I know that Campbell's one that, like, he's hard to get out of Ames. Like, he's found somewhere that he likes. And there's a lot to be said for that. You know, across Iowa, Kirk Ferencz was kind of that guy 15, 20 years ago where, you know, it wasn't just every big college job. It was like NFL teams were, hey, could we ever get Kirk Ference out of Iowa City? You hear that with Matt Campbell? I think that there have been some NFL teams that have kicked the tires to see if he's interested in going there. I think, you know, with maybe Doran to a lesser extent, but with Fleck and Campbell, what you see with those guys is, like, when you put together these lists of who are the best coaches, and you ask coaches, like, who do you think can really coach? I think that they end up being mentioned a lot in those surveys because they understand the limitations of a place like Minnesota, the limitations of a place like Iowa State, the limitations of a place like NC State. And they see when these guys are winning at a high level, that stands out to them. And so, you know, again, this is kind of a little scatterbrained exercise here. But you look at Campbell, you tell me Arkansas wouldn't take this nine year run. 8 wins, 8 wins, 7 wins, 9 wins, 7 wins, 4 wins, 7 wins, 11 wins. Yeah, I would. [00:36:40] Speaker A: Yeah. And I know we're not necessarily talking about these three guys as these are guys Arkansas should go after. [00:36:45] Speaker B: I'm just talking about resumes that look. [00:36:47] Speaker A: Like the profile of coach. Yes, exactly. Fleck, however, is somebody that people have kicked around as a name that could be interested in Arkansas and who Arkansas could legitimately be interested in. [00:36:57] Speaker B: And I think you've got the Lindsay connection. Drake Lindsay, who is here, is John David's son. He's the starting quarterback at Minnesota. [00:37:04] Speaker A: Yes. And when you and I were talking about this this morning on the phone, we. You mentioned, you know, maybe he's somebody that, you know, he's been in Minnesota for a while. Maybe he feels like he's. He's reached his ceiling there and maybe wants to go do something else. He's pretty young, right? [00:37:17] Speaker B: 44. [00:37:18] Speaker A: 44, yeah. He's a young coach, I think. You know, and you posted this on our message board that you. You did not meet him, but you sort of were around it. You observed him at some FHS games. I have been to a PJ Fleck practice. I was an intern at the Star Tribune in Minneapolis in the summer of 2021. And I went to a. I guess it was. I think it was maybe a fall, early fall camp practice. And it was fascinating because this was the first time I'd really been to a practice that wasn't Arkansas and in my adult life anyway. And I remember, and I have videos of it in my Snapchat memories of they were playing, they were working out to really loud music during practice the whole time. And it was, it was very loud songs. And then they were interspersed just in the middle of the song. It would cut out and there would be like chainsaw sounds. Just like really loud, just chainsaws in the middle of a popular song. I don't know why I never figured it out. I don't know. It feels like everything I know about PJ Fleck, that sounds like kind of the, the vibe, but it was very interesting. So I have been to a P.J. fleck practice. You were talking about how you saw him get very into some, some FHS games. [00:38:29] Speaker B: Yeah, they played fhs, played a game at North Little Rock and Nebraska. Minnesota had played somebody the night before. I can't remember, maybe it was Nebraska on Thursday night. They played somebody on a Thursday night and they won. And so on the Friday night, Fayetteville's playing at North Little Rock Stadium. And Fleck and one of the other assistant coaches from Minnesota, they flew into Little Rock to come watch him play. And I've never, you know, during the Fayetteville games, you see college coaches all the time on the sideline. I've seen Rhett Lashley there. Bobby Petrino was at a game. This season. You see assistant coaches come from all over the place to watch them play. This is the only time I've ever seen a coach like if, let's say Fayetteville is at the 20 yard line on the North Little Rock side of the field. Fleck might be at the 40 on the other side of midfield, about two, three steps out onto the field, hands down on his knees like he was coaching and evaluating what he was seeing on the field. I've never seen anything like that from a coach who comes to a game. And I thought that, you know, just kind of watching him that night, it really shows you how much, like it's not just there to make an appearance. There's a real evaluation that was being made for him to make that trip down to Arkansas to watch this quarterback play. And Lindsey had already committed to him. [00:39:44] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:39:44] Speaker B: At that point. But, you know, it was. That stood out to me. I'd never seen anything like that. [00:39:49] Speaker A: So, yeah, I think when I initially, you know, a couple weeks ago, maybe it was when we first kind of heard people throw around the Fleck name, I was like, I don't know if I'm inspired by that. And I'm not saying necessarily that I think that's who Arkansas's next coach should be or should be their top choice. I don't really know who I think their top choice should be, but I think it's more interesting to me now than I. Than it was on its face initially. Like, I'm more willing to explore the idea than I thought I was. [00:40:13] Speaker B: Okay, so I want to go here to talk about coordinators, SEC coordinators. If you were to give somebody a chance to jump in, number one, I feel like, and maybe I'm wrong about this, but if I'm going to give a coordinator a chance, I want it to be a coordinator who's in the SEC right now, who's having success right now. I don't want it to be a coordinator who knew the SEC in 2021. I don't want it to be a coordinator from an ACC school who might see an SEC team every other year. Like, I think that if you're going to give a coordinator a chance, it needs to be somebody who is clearly ready in the job that they have right now and that they, you know, can just move within your conference and make that move. Now, I don't really think that's going to happen, because even though Sam Pittman wasn't a coordinator, isn't that kind of what you just did with Sam Pittman? You took an assistant coach away who had never had head coaching experience from another set program, and it didn't work out. Right. But if you were going to look at that route, I was thinking, number one, I would want someone who's having success, obviously, right now, this year, but I also would really be leery of taking someone whose head coach was kind of the guy on your side of the wall. So, like, you're the coordinator in title only, but Josh Heifel's really the one calling the plays or Brent Venable is really the one calling the place, you know, and so I don't know who that looks like. A couple of, you know, a few things that popped into my mind, you look at Tim Beck at Vanderbilt. He's kind of an interesting guy because, you know, now there's going to be a lot of people who ask, is he having success because of Diego Pavia or is Diego Pavia having success because of him? Beck does have some head coaching experience, though. He was. He actually won a national championship at Pittsburgh State up in Kansas several years ago, or at least had him in the championship game. I think. I think they won a championship there. You know, I don't think Bobby Petrino is getting the job, but Petrino would be another one that would fit that. That bill in terms of he, you know, he's an offensive coordinator and it's clearly, it's his offense. This was not Sam Pittman's offense that Bobby Petrino was running. You know, I think there are going to be a lot of people out there who talk about DJ Durkin at Auburn, but you look at Durkin and he's got this stain on his past, and that's all I'm going to say from Maryland. He got let go at Maryland seven years ago, hasn't gotten another head coaching opportunity. I'm not sure he's going to. But, you know, like. Like who are some of the coaches, who are some of the coordinators like that? I don't want Lane Keffin's offensive coordinator. I don't want Jeff Levy's offensive coordinator. I don't want. You see what I'm saying. I don't want Clark Lee's defensive coordinator at Vanderbilt. So that would be kind of what I'd be looking at from an SEC coordinator. And then you have to ask yourself, are there really any coordinators out there that fit those parameters that are in the SEC who you think are ready to be head coaches? I don't know that. There are. One of the coordinators names who I hear get thrown around a lot is Glenn Schumann at Georgia. But again, you're running Kirby smarts defense. Yeah, I don't. I don't know. Now, Dan Lanning, he came out of Georgia. I don't know that he was the defensive coordinator, but he came out of that and he's done just fine for the first quarter. [00:43:15] Speaker A: I think he might be the exception, not the rule. [00:43:16] Speaker B: Yeah, I think you're right. [00:43:17] Speaker A: I guess my question would be, do you feel strongly about if Arkansas would need to prioritize an offensive guy or a defensive guy, or do you think it matters? [00:43:25] Speaker B: No, I don't think it matters. [00:43:26] Speaker A: Okay. [00:43:26] Speaker B: I just think it matters if you get somebody who knows how to hire assistant Coaches. [00:43:30] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:43:31] Speaker B: You know, and it's like if you were going to go and you were going to hire a coach out of another conference, I think that one of the, one of the things that you would want to have a good grasp on is, okay, who do you think you could bring with you to be a coordinator here? I think that was one of the big draws with Pittman. It was, hey, I think I can get this guy to be an offensive coordinator. I think I can get this guy to be the defensive coordinator. And for the most part, it worked out well early. For the most part, it worked out. His coordinator hires worked out more often than they failed. You know, Odom was okay. Briles was pretty good. Petrino's been pretty good. Enos was awful. But there were a lot of things I think that were going on. [00:44:09] Speaker A: Williams was good. [00:44:11] Speaker B: Yeah, I always thought Travis Williams was a little bit overrated. You look at their defensive numbers the last few years, it was like they would always be really good after non conference play. And then once they hit SEC play, they would start to plummet once they would play teams with better athletes. [00:44:25] Speaker A: Yeah, well, he was your best recruiter probably, right? [00:44:28] Speaker B: He's a good recruiter. And that's another thing. It's like there are multiple layers to being a coach. It's okay, yeah, the game day part that matters. But if you're a head coach, the ability to sell yourself and go out to some of these banquets and, you know, shake hands and kiss babies and politics, so to speak, that matters. Your ability to identify coaches, your ability to recruit players, if you're an assistant coach, your ability to recruit players is maybe just as important as what you do in terms of practice and putting together a good unit on that side of the ball. There's a lot of layers that go into this, and I'm just fortunate that I only have to put on my ad hat for 20 minutes and think about this and that. I'm not actually in that chair flying around or making the calls to, you know, the search firms, the agents, whoever, and having those type of conversations. [00:45:15] Speaker A: Yeah, no, I, I would not really want to do that either. We have the easy job fans. We all get the fun job of just thinking about it, speculating, dreaming and then. But we really just won't know till we know. [00:45:26] Speaker B: So like I said, like, none of these names are real attractive names, but I just, I just don't know that there's a lot of big names that are out there for Arkansas to get, especially with how crowded I could be. Totally shocked. Maybe they go out and they pull a John Caliperi out of the hat. [00:45:39] Speaker A: I don't think they will because I just don't think you can. I don't think you can. [00:45:42] Speaker B: I just don't think the program. I don't think the football program is in the same position that the basketball program was in a year ago. Yeah, we talked about this yesterday. A lot of people thought Sam Pittman was going to be that bridge to something better. But now you look at the football team, unless something crazy happens over the last month of the season and they have a result that is surprising, they're going to go 08 this year. And you think about what Pittman inherited from Chad Morris. It was back to back years where they were 2 and 10 and 08 in the SEC, long SEC losing streak. They hadn't won an SEC game, I think, at that point, in more than two years. Okay, well, what's someone going to inherit from Sam Pittman? There's a good chance that it's going to be a 2 and 10 team that went.08 in the SEC and hasn't won an SEC game in close to two years. And so I think that we're maybe back kind of to square one with this football team. [00:46:31] Speaker A: Yeah, I think you're right. And I do think they'll need somebody to kind of who's willing to take on the challenge and willing to kind of bring them back to a respect, more respectable level. [00:46:40] Speaker B: And that's the fit. Yeah, that's the fit. It's someone who's not scared of a rebuild. Someone who is not opposed to taking some lumps along the way, but someone who believes enough in their system to know that, hey, once I get to this point, maybe it's year two, maybe it's just a win that gets us to six and six. Once I get to that point, I'm going to like, if you'll just give me enough time, we're going to get there. And if I can show enough, you know, steps along the way, that's the fit. To me, it's not the name, it's. It's the fit. I don't know who the fit is, but I think that the fit, whether it be any of those coaches that I mentioned or not, maybe not Dave Doran, now that I've found out he's going to be fired from Christina. But I'm putting my idea, somebody, somebody who has those type of, those type of numbers and records and years at a school on their resume. [00:47:37] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. I think you're right. I think it's interesting. When we first talked about this, like you said several weeks ago, we were kind of outlining some different criteria, but now that this market's gotten so crowded and, you know, there's been rumors of various. Of interest from various levels, it's just. I do think it changes the. The way the landscape of the. The coaching carousel has changed. Does change some things. But at the same time, I will. I hold that. I do not think Arkansas has to settle. I don't think that not getting, you know, Rhett Lashley or whoever it was that you wanted that you thought maybe was a bigger name. I. I don't think that has to mean settling. [00:48:09] Speaker B: Yeah, I agree. And the perception of a coach when you hire him and the perception of a coach a year or two after you hire him can be very different in one way or the other. [00:48:20] Speaker A: Extremely. [00:48:21] Speaker B: It can really sway. All right, Christina, appreciate you being here. We appreciate everyone being with us today, too. I hope that you'll join us on tomorrow's show or at our website, whole hogsports.com have a great day, everybody.