Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: You're listening to the Whole Hog Sports podcast. And now here's your host, Matt Jones.
[00:00:05] Speaker B: Today on the show, we talk Arkansas football. Also, more big picture college football. First, a word from Kendall King.
[00:00:11] Speaker C: Kendall King. We're proud of over four decades of design.
We're continuing the legacy of great creative design by combining our brands of Kendall King, Soapbox and Shopcart. Together, these brands represent a new focus in marketing design with individual attention to specific areas. Through our design expertise, supported by a team of talented professionals, we showcase our best.
We are Kendall King. We are Soapbox. We are Shopcart. We are Design.
[00:00:36] Speaker B: This time of year is kind of like getting pulled over by the police.
It goes from 100 to nothing. Really, really fast.
[00:00:44] Speaker B: Did you like that?
[00:00:44] Speaker A: Yeah, I did. I didn't know where you were going.
[00:00:46] Speaker B: Christina Long. Christina Long's in here with me. But, I mean, you do. It's like football season, and you've got the basketball overlap. It is just go, go, go, go, go, go, go.
And then they announced the new coach. And then you get like a week between basketball games, and you quickly kind of realize it's like, hey, there's not a whole lot going on right now. It's a weird time.
[00:01:08] Speaker A: Yeah, it is. I had that same thing this week where it was like, all right, we got everything out on Silverfield that we needed to like. That was immediate. And then now this week, it's like, what do we do? And neither of the basketball teams play till Saturday, and that's just kind of where we're at.
[00:01:20] Speaker B: I just came back from a Kelsey music luncheon, though, by the way, they're going to play at Missouri State on Saturday. It's kind of interesting seeing her kind of more in that laid back, you know, environment, so to speak. And this luncheon, this was.
I'm not gonna say it was thrown together, but I don't think it was scheduled very far in advance. They ended up having like 60 or 70 people there listening to her talk about her team. What you think about for women's basketball? That's a. That's a pretty big number that they had there for her. They're gonna play at Missouri State on Saturday. Men's basketball at Texas Tech on. Or they're at in Dallas to play Texas Tech on Saturday at the Mavericks arena at American Airlines Center. We'll talk about basketball on another day. We're going to talk all football today. Ryan Silverfield, he's been on the job now for a little over a week.
We're starting to get a feel for what this staff that he's putting together is going to look like. A couple of more assistant coaches announced yesterday. Well, I say announced. They were reported yesterday. They haven't officially announced any of this. But Matt Zenitz of CBS Sports reported that Arkansas is going to hire Marcus Johnson and Jeff Myers to coach offensive lineman at Arkansas. Johnson, he played for Silverfield with the Minnesota Vikings. He's 44 years old. He has been an assistant offensive line coach this year at Ohio State. Myers was the run game coordinator and the offensive line coach for Silverfield at Memphis. He's 33 years old. He actually was at Toledo when Silverfield as a player, when Silverfield was on the staff at Toledo. You know, so now Christina, we know or we think we know. Again, none of these have been officially confirmed. But seven assistant coaches. You've got Tim Cramsey, the offensive coordinator from Memphis, receivers coach Larry Smith from Memphis, Florida defensive coordinator Ron Roberts, Auburn special teams coordinator Chad Lunsford and and Florida State running backs coach David Johnson. I don't know what I expected from the staff.
I do think that maybe something Hunter Jurczyk said during the introductory press conference last week may have set up some expectations for this.
Somebody said, what's the evidence of the increased revenue that you have? Eddie said, I think you're going to see it in part by the staff that he's able to hire. He said you're going to see it by the recruits that he's able to bring in.
I don't know that anybody on this staff just blows anybody away.
I'm not saying they're bad, but these aren't just huge names that they're bringing in, especially in these coordinator roles.
[00:03:53] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I guess we just misread the situation, but I feel like that implies that there was going to be some kind of an interesting name or a bigger hire that would cause maybe there still could cost you more money to get. But if there is, it's going to be not an on field role or I guess a defensive. We don't have a lot of defensive assistant coaches. I just 1.
[00:04:12] Speaker B: The coordinator is the only one who's been reported.
[00:04:14] Speaker A: So I mean we'll see. But like, I don't know, I feel like usually you're not like dropping a bag for a defensive backs coach, you know what I'm saying? So I don't know, you know, it doesn't have to be a bad thing, but it's definitely different. I, I thought they were going to get somebody coordinator wise that was maybe more known Just because they're not. You know, I said this when they were looking to hire a coach, there was a head coach. There was an idea that there had to be a big name. And so I've said before that you don't have to be a. Well, you know, a household name to be successful, but it isn't. It was a little bit incongruous with what we kind of heard. And it kind of made me go, oh, okay, I guess.
Which was a little bit interesting.
[00:04:49] Speaker B: You look at these two offensive line coaches. This is not something that a lot of programs do where you've got two offensive line coaches and we don't know how Arkansas is going to use them.
But I think Danny Ford might have been the last one who had two offensive line coaches at Arkansas.
[00:05:04] Speaker A: I don't know of very many staffs that have done this.
[00:05:07] Speaker B: So, I mean, it's, it's not unprecedented to have somebody that coaches the interior of the line and the tackles.
Probably the tight ends might be an extension of that too, you know, and everybody builds their staff differently. Like, you know, I've seen times here where you have a linebacker's coach. I've also seen times where you have an inside linebacker's coach and an outside linebacker's coach. You know, there's been a time. Times where you have a defensive line coach. There have been times where you have a coach who coaches defensive ends and somebody who coaches defensive tackles. So there's no right or wrong way to do this. But I think when you look at Silverfield, he's got an offensive line background and now you're bringing in, it appears, two offensive line coaches to be on your full time coaching staff.
[00:05:53] Speaker B: I think we can see where the emphasis or end emphasis is going to be on this team.
[00:05:56] Speaker A: Yeah, I think so too. And one thing I was, I think I was just sort of trying to read too many tea leaves. I was a little surprised that he didn't retain Eric Mateos because I was, I was really, like I said, reading a little too much into things in terms of my speculation. But when they put like the Big Hogs plus video out, they included a clip of Silverfield meeting Mateos. And then like, I guess they had met before and they were reconnecting and they included a little bit, you know, it was kind of a long thing where you could hear their conversation. Not long, long. But it wasn't just like a, you know, B roll of him shaking hands with a bunch of coaches. It was like him in Mateo's office. He met Corey Robinson Whatever. They had a moment. So I was like, oh, maybe that's kind of a sign he's gonna retain him. And then on signing day, Eric Mateos was tweeting about a lot a bun offensive lineman that they signed, which, again, those are guys he recruited. So I.
I think maybe he thought he was going to say, I don't know. That's literally just me speculating from those two things. So I was a little bit surprised that he wasn't retaining Mateos. And then there was kind of a notion, and I wanted to get your thoughts on this. There was kind of a notion that maybe it was kind of a difference in philosophy in terms of the type of lineman. And people are concerned. People are going, oh, my God, the Chad Morris light and fast offensive line. And, oh, no, that's going to be a disaster.
[00:07:06] Speaker B: It could be just different philosophies and how they want to use their linemen, different type of blocking schemes.
You know, it ended up being okay. And certainly because Sam Pittman hired Dan Enos back as his offensive coordinator many years down the road as a head coach. Now, we know that was a disaster. But I know that whenever. Because I've talked to Sam about this.
When he was here under Brett Bielema, Jim Cheney was the offensive coordinator at first, and Pittman and Cheney had been together at Tennessee. They very much aligned in how they did things. Dan Enos comes in. There was a transition in learning how to, you know, fit into that offense. So it's not. I don't think it's as simple as just saying, hey, you're an offensive line coach. I have an offensive line in my offense. Let's get together. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it's, you know, I think it's a lot more nuanced than that. I don't know if that's what's.
[00:08:02] Speaker B: But, you know, you look at these two guys, I mean, they both got ties to Silverfield in the past. Both of them have more or less played for him.
I believe that Myers, I think Silverfield was an offensive line coach at Toledo or maybe an assistant offensive line at Toledo when Myers was playing there. But they both have familiarity with him in an offense that Silverfield was coaching.
And so, I mean, I think that's a big deal to coaches.
[00:08:29] Speaker A: Yeah, it makes sense. That's. You see that all the time. You know, with. Even Petrino was hiring, you know, when he kind of built his offensive staff, he hired guys that had played for him or worked for him before. So it's. I mean, it's very normal for that in particular. But I was interested in the. The two offensive line coaches thing. But you're right, you. You do see that on defensive line in particular, you have guys kind of coaching the interior versus the outside guy. So, I mean, it does make sense to me.
[00:08:52] Speaker B: Speaking of offense, Shaq or offensive line, Shaq McCroy has announced he's going to. Or somebody's reported that he's going to transfer away from Arkansas. I don't know if this is a.
[00:09:04] Speaker B: Big surprise or anything, but. But that is out there.
[00:09:06] Speaker A: Yeah. So only the second person that's announced that their intent to.
[00:09:10] Speaker B: Who's the first?
[00:09:11] Speaker A: Keyshawn De Villa.
I say announced. It's. It's Hayes Fawcett. Who is who they all announce it through. So it's like it's. Shouldn't call it an announcement because technically it's reported, but it's basically the announcement.
And, but since the portal, you know, again, the portal doesn't open till January, so it's just people saying that they plan to enter the portal, but just those two guys so far.
[00:09:33] Speaker B: Going back to these offensive line coaches for a second. Myers previously was at Iowa State for a long time. He was Matt Campbell's offensive line coach there for quite some time. And then Johnson played at Ole Miss. He's previously been a line coach at Duke, Mississippi State, Missouri and Purdue. This year he's an assistant offensive line coach. So he's not the offensive line coach at Ohio State. He's kind of like their number two line coach and that's where he is. And I would assume that he would leave Ohio State now before the playoff run.
[00:10:05] Speaker A: Yeah, I guess we don't actually know.
[00:10:06] Speaker B: Don't know. I mean, again, all of this is just reported. None of it is confirmed. We don't have any reason to believe that any of it's not true.
But that's his. That's his background.
[00:10:17] Speaker A: Yeah. I'll. Back to our point about, you know, the, the idea that this was going to be the staff hires were going to be evidence of the new financial commitment. Maybe it's just once we start getting these term sheets and figuring out what these agreements are, it'll just be that they're paying them better.
[00:10:31] Speaker B: Are they, are they overpaying then? I mean, because, I mean, you look at the, I mean, seriously, you look at the coordinators.
[00:10:38] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:10:38] Speaker B: Ron Roberts, a defensive coordinator, he's got a lot of experience.
Like, I mean, he's what, late 50s, early 60s?
[00:10:45] Speaker A: But is it good experience?
[00:10:46] Speaker B: Well, but, I mean, he's Been. He's been a defense coordinator at Florida this year.
You know, you look at Ramsey, is he as good as Bobby Petrino?
There's a lot of different thoughts about what you think about Bobby Petrino this year. I mean, you look at the numbers, numbers were pretty good. But then you kind of break it down a little bit further. The second half of games was not very good this year.
You know, I don't know. And so just because you pay a staff a lot of money does not mean that it's the best staff.
I mean, this year's staff at Arkansas, highest paid staff they've ever had.
[00:11:19] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:11:20] Speaker B: Look what they got them.
[00:11:21] Speaker A: Yeah. And half of them were gone in September.
[00:11:23] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, seriously, what was it? Three or four were gone?
[00:11:27] Speaker A: Four, including Pittman. Yeah.
[00:11:28] Speaker B: Yeah.
So I don't know. This is, by the way, this is the quote, your check last week was asked what points to evidence that Arkansas stepped up in financials in the sec. He said, quote, it will come when he being Silverfield announces some of the people on his staff. That will be the first place, he said. And then you will see how our roster comes together after the transfer portal officially opens in January.
You see, we've got a couple of young men here that are coming back. He was talking about K.J. jackson and Quincy Rhodes. He said that's a part of the financial commitment that we've made in our football program to be able to retain those high caliber, very talented young men that we want to be part of our program, leaders of the program. So on.
[00:12:11] Speaker A: So, yeah, the portal stuff is going to be the next big thing because ultimately I think, you know, staff pay is important and that's.
[00:12:17] Speaker B: And he did mention support staff later on. And that's not just. And maybe that's. Maybe, I mean, maybe that's the key is that they've got a much bigger.
[00:12:26] Speaker A: Support staff if they want to. When he fired Pitman, your check said that they wanted to build a more robust sort of scouting department and maybe that's part of it. They want to. You know, there's also been reports that Silverfield's bringing his general manager from Memphis. So. And what kind of his exact title will be and how that's structured is tbd. But, you know, will giving him, empowering him more with. With staff and the ability to evaluate and scout and bring players in, that could also be part of it. But I do think that's where portal time is going to be so important. You know, it always matters because it's who's going to be on your team next year. But I think, especially when you're. You're establishing, you know, a new roster, how many guys they lose, who they lose, if it's guys they want to retain and then who they're able to bring in, what caliber of player is going to be really notable. And somewhere, you know, we said that we felt like they may be underspent on defense this year.
And I think it'll be really interesting to see where they're getting guys from and what kind of experience these guys have with when they bring them in. And if we'll be able to tell, you know, are they going to invest more in one side of the ball or are they going to try to keep it balanced? You know, there will be things like that that we're trying to kind of read as we see the kind of players that they get in.
[00:13:34] Speaker B: Pretty interesting. See, I think maybe the support staff, maybe that's.
Maybe that's the big key. Maybe. Maybe there's more support staff members and maybe they're able to pay their support staff members more. I don't know. I don't know how that's going to look. But that's the staff as we know it right now.
[00:13:51] Speaker A: It's more additions to come.
[00:13:53] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, they've got to make three more. I was. I would. I would presume that assuming all of these are right, they've made five. No, four, five on the offensive side, one on defense, one on special teams. I would. I would think that the other three would be defensive assistant coaches, wouldn't you think?
[00:14:14] Speaker A: Right.
[00:14:14] Speaker B: I mean, I can't see a world where you have six, three and one. Yeah, I think it'd be five, four and one.
[00:14:20] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:14:20] Speaker B: That's how Pittman staff was this year.
[00:14:22] Speaker A: Yeah. And defensive coordinator, he's. He has like linebackers coach background, right? I'm pretty sure. So, you know, maybe they do.
[00:14:29] Speaker B: Travis Williams, Ron Roberts was actually. He was in the running to be Arkansas defensive coordinator when Travis Williams got hired after Barry Odom had left to be the head coach at unlv. Roberts was in the mix. I don't. I don't know how seriously he was in the mix.
[00:14:44] Speaker A: Was that when he went to Auburn for a year?
[00:14:47] Speaker B: Yes, yes. He went to Auburn for one year, then he went to Florida for two. Yeah. And, you know, we talked the other day about his efficiency. I wanted to mention this too, Christina. I looked up Memphis's efficiency this year. They had a 420 efficiency offensively. That's a good number. And they had a 296 efficiency defensively. Now, their defensive coordinator is not going to come to Arkansas, but that's. Those are pretty good numbers.
[00:15:09] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:15:10] Speaker B: That Memphis put together efficiently this year.
[00:15:12] Speaker A: Yeah, not bad.
But I mean.
[00:15:16] Speaker A: The Florida stuff was interesting. The fact that he was fired at Baylor was interesting. So I don't know, we'll see with him specifically what that looks like.
[00:15:25] Speaker B: Well, I mean, sometimes somebody has to get fired in order for the head coach to save their skin or buy themselves another year or something. So I don't know what happened there with him at Baylor.
[00:15:41] Speaker B: Somebody asked me this morning what went wrong with Arkansas this season, and I thought that was kind of a loaded question.
[00:15:48] Speaker B: So I'll give you the floor as you, as you look at Arkansas this season and you just kind of diagnose or you know, go back and you know, say, here's what went wrong with Arkansas, here's why they went 2 and 10, 018 in the SEC.
What do you think?
[00:16:05] Speaker A: They couldn't stop anybody. I mean, even when there were some games where it felt like, oh, the defense isn't what lost them the game, the offense was, it still wasn't like the defense was playing well. It just was playing not as bad and it was giving them an opportunity. And then the offense, like you touched on it earlier. The second half thing was crazy. That's one thing that I feel like people maybe weren't talking about enough. You know, especially the people that really felt like Petrino should have been retained or people that really felt great about what Petrino did in his, you know, whatever, nine games.
[00:16:37] Speaker A: I didn't feel like that was that great. I mean, we talked a lot about how he does he and the staff deserve credit for keeping the team from, you know, totally letting go of the rope and letting it get totally out of hand.
But it's not like the offense, you know, it's, it's so deceptive because you look at the stats and they put up all these great numbers and all this great yardage and all this good stuff didn't win the many games. There were times when the offense was what lost in the game as opposed to their really bad defense.
So, so I think it was, it was an inability to play complimentary football. Um, it felt like when one thing would get. You'd plug one hole and then the other one would open, you know, so it was, that was a huge problem. And I think the, the second half offense thing was just so sort of almost inexplicable. Like it just. How did it keep happening? How did it just keep. Continue to be a problem? Same thing with the turnovers. How did they just continue to have turnover problems? When we talked about all off season, you know, they knew it was. Everyone knew it was a problem. They worked on it. How did, how does that happen?
[00:17:30] Speaker B: Um, keep the same quarterback.
[00:17:32] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a huge part of it. And. But I also think, you know, the defense starting the way that it did, struggling the way that it did, I don't think helped them at all. Especially, you know, even though, like we said, they had some better games, they had some games where it seemed like, oh, maybe they're improving, you know, they. They got tackling a little better, the effort got a little better, but it just was not nearly enough. It was still bad.
[00:17:54] Speaker B: I think as a team. Nobody's told me this, but I'm going to tell you what I think happened. You have to choose what your identity is going to be based on the players you have.
And I think that this year, like a baseball team, you can be a great pitching and defense team, but you may not be able to hit worth a lick. And so you got to win a lot of games, three to one and, you know, two to one and four to two or whatever.
I think this year, this football team identity became. And I don't know how it got to this point, but it became where they were. Well, I think I know how it got to this point. I think that they went out and they put too much money into their offense and not enough into their defense.
Quarterback, we know they paid for their quarterback. Offensive line, I think they paid pretty handsomely for their offensive line.
Even, you know, McCrory, he didn't start this year. I mean, I think they probably paid a nice chunk of money to be able to get him to come in and be their number six lineman in hopes that he would start.
But I think that, you know, they didn't just pay for five linemen. I think they went above and beyond knowing, you know, that you're going to have injuries and you're going to be able to have some depth there.
[00:19:04] Speaker B: So I think that they built a team. Long story short, they built a team that they thought could just outscore people.
And what I think where I think they misevaluated this team was defensively. I think they thought that some of the players they brought in they could get to develop or buy in or something better than they actually did. I don't think they had any clue that the defense was going to be as bad as it was.
And I say that I don't think they had any clue when they were putting the roster together that the defense was going to be as bad as it was. You can't tell me though that when they're in the preseason they're saying, oh, you know, we look like a, we look like a good team, we look like a great team. You know, why do you think we're going to win? Because we got Taylor Green and they don't.
You can't tell me that at that point in time they didn't know. They had some real, real defensive deficiencies.
[00:19:55] Speaker A: You could start to tell when they started reading out some of the scrimmage stats and they read out, yes. And Monte Harrison had looked like the best. I was like, either Monte Harrison is the real deal and is the best receiver they've ever had.
[00:20:08] Speaker B: And we never know because he got hurt. He may have had, he may have had a good season had he not been able.
[00:20:12] Speaker A: Right. And I don't think he's like not talented. Obviously he's here, he played professional baseball. He has a certain level of athleticism that is going to help you. But it was when he was having like a crazy, you know, all these stats which, the stats when he has.
[00:20:24] Speaker B: Three catches of more than 45 yards in a scrimmage.
[00:20:26] Speaker A: Yes. And it's a little deceptive because we don't get to watch the scrimmages. And so they just read us the highlight plays. So we only really hear about the big chunk plays. But when you have your 30 year old walk on, have that kind of a performance, you go, I wonder why that was. I wonder who was tasked with trying to bring him down.
[00:20:42] Speaker B: I'll be interested to see what this is going to look like with Silverfield. I wish they would open up the preseason scrimmages again.
You know, I mean, Bobby Petrino had his open. Brett Bielema had his open. Houston Nut had his open.
It didn't hurt Petrino's teams from winning 21 games over two years. And I'll tell you, Twitter existed, YouTube existed, message boards existed. Like the ability to take your phone out, even though Petrino had people literally walking the aisles until put your phone out. Like trying to take phones from people, in some instances, you know, you just can't. Like, I think that it would be beneficial to the team because it would set a realistic expectation going into the season. And they might, they may not agree with that. And that's fine. I'm just telling you that's what I would, that's what I Think, what if.
[00:21:28] Speaker A: You don't want realistic expectation going, like, what if we all.
That's from, like, if I were them.
[00:21:34] Speaker B: You get a 13 eye opener against Notre Dame.
[00:21:37] Speaker A: Well, yeah, yeah, but I wouldn't have, you know, if I'm them, I don't want people writing about how, hey, this defense looks cheeks in August, you know, I don't think that's what they want.
[00:21:45] Speaker B: I wouldn't use that word. Would you write that?
[00:21:48] Speaker A: I wouldn't write it because.
[00:21:49] Speaker B: Would that make it past the editor?
[00:21:50] Speaker A: Well, you're the editor, so no. But that doesn't necessarily match the typical formality of our site. But it is something I have said and would say out loud.
[00:21:59] Speaker B: I just, I always felt like you learned a lot about the team through those scrimmages.
[00:22:03] Speaker A: Like, like you do. I just, I understand why they don't want it. That doesn't mean I like it. Yeah, I think we should be able.
[00:22:10] Speaker B: To watch practice, just open up a scrimmage. Open up a scrimmage and allow people, not just Petrino loved having his scrimmages open because he thought that Even if there's 3,000 people or 5,000 or 7,000 people in the stands, it's still more people than just having, you know, vacant seats watch you. And he always felt like players would like having eyeballs in the stadium would bring out the best in the players during practice and you know, how you practice is how you play and so on and so forth.
I would like to see that. I don't know that we're going to see that under Silverfield. I suspect we probably won't, but I'd like to see it.
[00:22:52] Speaker A: I don't know how many teams still I'd be interested.
[00:22:54] Speaker B: You think about the NFL exhibition games, you know, those aren't closed.
[00:22:58] Speaker A: Yeah. So televised those event.
[00:23:01] Speaker B: Yeah.
I'd like to see more scrimmages just so that it would build a realistic expectation for what the team actually looks like.
[00:23:10] Speaker A: Yeah, it would be nice. I just, I'm going to set the expectation low and then be pleasantly surprised if they let us have things.
[00:23:19] Speaker B: All right, when we come back, we're going to talk more college football. First, another word from Kindle King.
[00:23:22] Speaker C: Kindle King. We're proud of over four decades of design.
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[00:23:48] Speaker B: Welcome back. I want to tell you about our friends at Bentonville Glass. They've been serving their community since 1971. They are committed, professional and versatile. If you're looking for a quality leader in northwest Arkansas or looking for skilled craftsmanship, look no further than Bentonville Glass for all your glass market needs with the highest quality products. You can come by and see them at 507 South Main in Bentonville or online at bentonvilleglass.com there's going to be a lot of talk here and obviously there already has been about expanding the playoff. If you're a team in Arkansas shoes, like why would you not want the playoff expanded?
[00:24:22] Speaker B: 14 playoff. There was no way Arkansas is ever getting into the 14 playoff. Never. I would say ever. Yeah, the best team they've had since they've been in the SEC finished third in their division. Yeah, that team wouldn't get into the playoff if the 14 playoff would have existed at that point.
[00:24:38] Speaker B: 12 team playoff. I think it'd be very hard for the Razorbacks to ever get in there. And what we're seeing now with all these bowl games.
[00:24:46] Speaker B: I think the bowl games are, I mentioned this yesterday. I think they're in some real trouble right now because what you've seen from Notre Dame and to a lesser extent with K State and Iowa State, with them opting out supposedly because of their coaching transitions, even though I think that's a crock, there's a lot of teams that are in bowl games that are going through coaching transitions too.
I think what you're seeing from teams is it's playoff or bust mentality.
And the bowl games, boy, they don't do much for people. They don't do much for people at all. We were there last year in Memphis and the stadium was being renovated so it was a reduced capacity to begin with. But then Even in a 42,000 seat stadium, I don't know what they announced attendance has Christina, but I mean I can't imagine it was over 30, 35.
It's just, and you know that's a Liberty bowl where 10 years ago, if Arkansas plays in that game, everybody floods across the river and they make it like War Memorial Stadium East.
You're not seeing that anymore. And you know, so I think I'm of the opinion let's just expand the playoffs, let's just go ahead and bypass 16 because you know they're going to bypass 16 at some point, make this thing a big old field where a Lot of teams can compete.
Because if FCs can have 32 teams, why can't the FBs have 32 teams? Like, if the NFL, if 40% of your teams or more can get into the playoffs, why do you limit it to, you know, I mean, what is that? Less than 10% of the FBS?
It just. It doesn't make sense relative to what other sports, and even college basketball or college baseball do. The.
[00:26:31] Speaker B: Number of opportunities that you have to get into the postseason in those sports versus fbs. It just doesn't make sense. And I would think that if you're a team that you don't feel like you've got a very good chance to get in the playoff right now, expand that sucker as big as it'll get. You got to be, you know, banging the door down, saying, hey, let's get 32 teams, let's get 40 teams. Let's get. And giving yourself a chance.
[00:26:50] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I get why people would want it. I do not love. I don't need, like, an infinitely large playoff. I also think we want to talk about the calendar being messed up now.
You would have to totally mess up the calendar to get that many rounds of games.
[00:27:08] Speaker B: Not really. I mean, they're playing the national championship game this year on January 19th.
You can fit that in. You can fit five rounds of playoffs in before January 19th. Just, you know, take away the conference championship game.
[00:27:20] Speaker A: That's a big thing. But that's a big if. I mean, I don't think it's going to happen. I think it will, but I think it's not going to be as quick as people maybe want.
[00:27:27] Speaker B: No, I agree with that, but it's going to happen. I mean, look at what the ACC championship game has done the last three years. Florida State, because they played in the ACC championship game, they were already down their starting quarterback. And then they looked to borrow your term like cheeks in 2023, and that cost them a chance to play in the playoff.
Last year, SMU very easily could have lost its opportunity at being a playoff team. And then this year, you know, they. They have their team, Virginia, losing the ACC championship game. I mean, if you're the acc, why do you keep playing a championship game if you're the sec? And this is where. This is where college football is so backward right now. So backward. If you're the best team, you have to play one more game than everybody else. Think about that. If you're the best SEC team or one of the two best SEC teams in every other level of sports, Even high school football, if you finish 1, 2 in your conference, you get a first round bye in the playoffs. And I know that if you win the sec, you're probably going to get a first round bye, but if you lose in the SEC championship game, you're probably not.
And so not only it's like you're penalized for being a good team. Hey, you're the best that our conference has to offer.
So therefore we're going to make you play an extra game and then if you lose that game, we're going to make you turn around in 12 days and play a first round playoff game. It makes absolutely no sense.
[00:28:46] Speaker A: And for the purposes of the playoff right now, they treat it a little bit almost like an exhibition because they don't want to punish you for losing your conference championship game. They don't want to punish you for making a game that technically teams are supposed to want to make. But then if you don't win, you get punished.
[00:29:01] Speaker B: And the conference championship, you know, it can't. There's no way to justify what's going on in the playoff without talking out of both sides of your mouth. Oh, we're not going to, you know, we're not going to punish Alabama for playing in the SEC championship game, but because BYU lost in the Big 12 championship, that's going to drop them down. And now all of a sudden we've got this head to head that we, you know, we've been avoiding for five weeks between these two teams.
[00:29:24] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:29:24] Speaker B: You know, there's no, the double talk when it comes to the playoff is.
[00:29:31] Speaker B: Never ending.
[00:29:32] Speaker A: Yeah. And it's hard because you also have standards that change over the years because A, you've changed the size of the playoffs. So you know, it. Different standards apply now than maybe did before, but you also have different people every time. I mean, they don't totally wipe the slate clean with who's on the committee every year, but it's.
[00:29:50] Speaker B: There's usually two to three year terms.
[00:29:52] Speaker A: So there's not. I mean, except for this year, because I know for a fact there's one that was on there at the beginning. But, but there's not anybody on there typically who was there when it started, who's still there, which is maybe a good thing because maybe you want it to evolve. Maybe there's stuff that was, you know, the way they did things at the beginning. There's stuff you want to change about it, but it's not as if it is, you know, it is, it is changing. It is a different group of People that evaluates things differently, that has different standards and. And things change. The leadership changes, things like that. So it's. It's also hard to get you. You end up getting. The longer it goes on, the more contradictions you get because it just kind of. It does change.
[00:30:25] Speaker B: I'm just tired of college football leaders acting like reality is not reality.
I'm tired of the, oh, well, we gotta. We gotta check with the academic calendar and, oh, we gotta, you know, we gotta do this and we gotta do that and bowl games and, like, who cares? This is so clearly about the playoff now. It is 100% about the playoff. We're talking about the playoff in week one. Well, LSU just beat Clemson. What does that do to Clemson's playoff chances? It's so clearly about the playoff. Ryan Silverfield came in here last week and he didn't say that it was about the playoff, but he said, we're not here just to compete for bowl games.
[00:31:02] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:31:03] Speaker B: You know, I mean, so that's a pretty good indication that it's about the playoff.
[00:31:08] Speaker B: I just. I wish that they would just.
Just figure this out. And the way to figure it out is to acknowledge this is what it's actually all about and then build a product that actually flows, you know, better into that playoff product.
[00:31:26] Speaker A: Yeah. I think the. I wonder how much they thought about what this might do to bowl games when they kind of.
[00:31:33] Speaker B: There was a concern. This, you know, especially when they went to 12 teams.
[00:31:36] Speaker A: It was a concern. Yeah. And I, I guess I do think that if you were to.
[00:31:41] Speaker B: Do you know any bowl games this year?
[00:31:44] Speaker A: Do I know? Like, what do you mean?
[00:31:45] Speaker B: Do you know any bowl matchups?
[00:31:48] Speaker A: BYU and somebody in the Pop Tarts bowl because Notre Dame isn't going to play.
[00:31:54] Speaker B: See, like, think about it. I could not tell you one bowl matchup. The only. I know lsu.
[00:32:00] Speaker A: I don't know when they start. When's the first one?
[00:32:02] Speaker B: Maybe this weekend. It wouldn't surprise me if it was this weekend.
[00:32:05] Speaker A: I have no idea.
[00:32:06] Speaker B: I know LSU is going to Houston. I don't know how I know that, but I saw that somewhere.
[00:32:10] Speaker A: I forgot they made a bowl.
[00:32:11] Speaker B: They're going to a bowl game. And I saw. I've actually seen the Citrus bowl matchup, but I've forgotten who it was at this point. I think Michigan may be going to the Citrus bowl, but I couldn't tell you who they're playing. I couldn't tell you they're playing.
That's how irrelevant. These other bowl. And that's the Citrus Bowl. The Citrus bowl is typically thought of as the best bowl game outside of the New Year's six games.
I couldn't tell you who's playing in it.
I guess I'll probably have it on on New Year's Eve in the background.
[00:32:41] Speaker A: I'll be watching Stranger Things.
[00:32:42] Speaker B: Okay. I won't hog jaw and watching, you know, whoever.
But the balls are irrelevant now. They're totally irrelevant now.
[00:32:52] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:32:53] Speaker B: And there's no. And there's no bringing them back. Like, once you've reached irrelevance in this era.
[00:33:00] Speaker B: You don't suddenly become relevant again. It's not like, you know, people are going to have this epiphany in a year or two, say, God, I'm really missing the Liberty bowl, please give me the Sun Bowl.
You know, and those are like the, Those are bigger bowls. I mean, what happens to the Fenway bowl, the Bahamas Bowl? I'm just making things up. I think those exist or they have existed at one point in time. The Pop Tarts Bowl.
[00:33:24] Speaker A: I love it, but yeah, yeah.
[00:33:27] Speaker B: Who won the Pop Tarts bowl last year?
[00:33:29] Speaker A: I don't know.
[00:33:30] Speaker B: See, it's.
[00:33:31] Speaker A: Well, there's been a whole discussion about this, too, because of the Notre Dame thing about, like, the Pop Tarts bowl specifically is more interesting.
[00:33:36] Speaker B: Is that really where Notre Dame was going to go as the Pop Tarts Bowl?
[00:33:39] Speaker A: It would have been Notre Dame versus BYU in the Pop Tarts Bowl.
[00:33:42] Speaker B: Where's the Pop Tarts bowl played?
[00:33:43] Speaker A: I think it's Orlando.
[00:33:45] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:33:46] Speaker A: It's in Florida somewhere. I think.
[00:33:50] Speaker A: The, the thing with, like, the Pop Tarts bowl specifically is like, it's. They do, like, fun and wacky kind of things. And so it's.
The intrigue of the Pop Tarts bowl specifically is not about the game. It's about the Pop Tarts.
[00:34:00] Speaker B: So if you're BYU and Notre Dame, genius branding and marketing, you think that you just got screwed out of being in the playoff.
[00:34:05] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:34:06] Speaker B: And so our consolation is to go do fun and wacky things at the Pop Tarts Bowl.
[00:34:10] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:34:12] Speaker B: Are we not.
[00:34:13] Speaker A: I'm not saying that, like, Notre Dame should have been super pumped about that, but I'm like, I don't know. I'm not, like, standing up the Pop Tarts Bowl. I think the Pop Tarts bowl is hilarious.
You know, I don't know how long for this world it will be along with all the other bowls. But specifically, that one is fun.
[00:34:28] Speaker B: I said this yesterday. I think one of two things is going to save the bowl games. Number one is that you make them A pay for play event, you know, so it's, hey, we've got a pot of a million and a half dollars here and the winner gets 1.2 to distribute among its team and the loser gets 300,000, you know, and so there's an incentive to actually play in the game or number two.
And I think this would be hard at least how things are.
[00:34:54] Speaker B: Structured right now is you put the bowl games in the preseason and they become like these kickoff events. So hey, you know, you went 8 and 4 and this team went 7 and 5 last year. And we're going to match you up in week one in the Liberty bowl in Memphis.
I think that that is preseason or.
[00:35:10] Speaker A: Like the first week. The first week actual games that came.
[00:35:13] Speaker B: Out first week of the season, I think. So you actually have to play somebody instead of North Alabama.
[00:35:17] Speaker A: I like that too. The only problem is these games get scheduled 80 years and that's the, that's what I'm like.
[00:35:21] Speaker B: You couldn't do it with the way everything's structured right now. There's got to be a way for like a central controlling agency to come in and, you know, evaporate the SEC and the Big Ten and the ACC and take over scheduling and control of everything.
And if you do that, maybe you can salvage the bowl games. But then again, I mean, who cares? Who cares? You know, as soon as you have Arkansas taking on Wisconsin and you know, Memphis to start a season, Wisconsin and Arkansas fans are going to be saying, well, why can't we play that game on our campus?
[00:35:58] Speaker A: Yeah, you're right.
[00:36:00] Speaker B: I just again, I think the bowl games, I think what's happened this week with Notre Dame, Iowa State, K State, and I understand all of them are for different reasons.
This reminds me of like when Christian McCaffrey sat out of a bowl game.
It's like, okay, well that's just him.
[00:36:15] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:36:15] Speaker B: But then the next year there were like 150 who did it and then the next year there were 250 and now it's. Nobody plays in a bowl game unless you're a red shirt or a walk on or something for the most part.
So I think that bowl games, I think that these three teams sitting out this year is a real crack in the foundation. And it's going to be interesting to see like at SEC spring meetings like what kind of conversations are had about what do we do to make sure that whenever you are bowl eligible that you go play in that bowl. They find K State and Iowa State a half million dollars.
[00:36:53] Speaker A: Oh, do they Really?
[00:36:54] Speaker B: I don't think they care. I don't think they care.
I think that, you know, they're more than happy to pay that fine.
[00:36:59] Speaker A: Yeah, Yeah. I don't know how you deterred it because, yeah, you'd have to have a pretty huge fine. And then at that point, it's, what's the point of having. You know, why?
I feel like the punishment would not fit the crime at that point for it to be something that would actually deter teams for doing this. But, yeah, I don't know. I think the postseason, you know, I say I don't want a huge playoff, but I think if you expand the playoff and bowl games are gone, then the earlier playoff matchups would kind of just replace that and they would be fun postseason football to watch around the holidays. Like, that's cool and fine.
It has stakes.
[00:37:31] Speaker B: You get more interesting, you get more on campus playoff games, which I love. Yeah, I think everybody would love that. Yeah, I mean, everybody would love that. And I'll tell you who would really love that are the administrators of these schools. Like, oh, we can. We can charge for an extra football game and we can charge top dollar for, you know, whoever to come here and play on December 15th.
Yeah, they'd love that. They'd love it. Without a doubt.
Boy, it seems like Notre Dame's ready to blow up their relationship with the acc.
[00:37:57] Speaker A: Yeah.
Yeah. What did he say today? He said something about the Notre Dame athletic director said something about the playoff can't be like a fifth grade game of musical chairs or whatever, which is what it was.
I was like, dang.
[00:38:12] Speaker B: Yeah. And I don't. If you're Notre Dame, go join a conference. Like, don't get mad when you're not in a conference, at a conference protecting its own, you know, I mean, the acc, they're going to. Obviously the ACC is going to go advocate for Miami to make the playoff over Notre Dame. They don't care that you play lacrosse in the accident. They don't care that you play basketball in the ACC or baseball or whatever. They're going to advocate for their football team to make the College Football Playoff.
[00:38:39] Speaker A: Yeah.
Are we all aware. I heard this on a podcast. I heard this on Splits and Duo, who I cite often, and I had not heard this or seen this anywhere else.
[00:38:49] Speaker A: Notre dame has this 20, 26 playoff assurance. They signed this MOU, this memorandum of understanding.
[00:38:56] Speaker B: If they're in the top 12, they.
[00:38:57] Speaker A: Would be guaranteed a spot the way that a conference is guaranteed a spot.
[00:39:01] Speaker B: If they're in the.
[00:39:02] Speaker A: So it's yes. If they're in the top 12, which.
[00:39:04] Speaker B: Allows them next year. And I think if it goes to a. If it expands beyond 12 teams, I think at that point it's. If they're in the top 13, they're assured a spot.
[00:39:13] Speaker A: Yeah, I did not know this until a couple days ago and I think is really interesting and is a way that they kind of tried to appease them and, and make their independence more sustainable because this is essentially making them.
[00:39:25] Speaker B: Why are we trying to. He's Notre Dame.
[00:39:27] Speaker A: Because they're Notre Dame.
[00:39:29] Speaker B: Who cares?
[00:39:29] Speaker A: A lot of people, I mean dumb, but a lot of people.
[00:39:33] Speaker B: Go join a conference if you want to. If you want to make the playoff, go join a conference and win a conference championship.
[00:39:38] Speaker A: But they've already gone and changed the rules so they don't have to.
[00:39:41] Speaker B: Again, this goes back to college football and its archaic nature.
The conferences and the independence and all this stuff. It's like everybody get together, come under one umbrella.
[00:39:52] Speaker A: That's what the Super League is going to be eventually and that's what everybody's.
[00:39:56] Speaker B: That'S what everybody thinks it's going to be. That's what everybody thinks it's going to be. And everybody thinks it's going to be 30 teams. But do you really think that they're going to be able to keep that thing to 30 teams?
[00:40:05] Speaker A: I don't, I don't know. I don't know how they'll actually.
[00:40:08] Speaker B: It'll be twice that many.
[00:40:09] Speaker A: I don't know if it'll be twice that many. But I mean, I think it'll be.
[00:40:12] Speaker B: Whoever wants to pay. Whoever, whoever decide and that's what I think it ought to be. Whoever decides that they want to, they want to pay to play real big, big boy football.
If you like. If you're Memphis and you were trying to buy your way into the Big 12 and you want to buy your way into this so called super league.
[00:40:30] Speaker A: Have that price point would be higher than what Memphis has.
[00:40:32] Speaker B: Two years, three years, you may be wishing you hadn't done that and you can drop back down to whatever else is created. Maybe they do some sort of conglomeration of what's now FCS and Group of five. I don't know.
But yeah, I think if you've got the money and you want to, you want to put your hat in the ring and say we're going to pay to play at this level. I think you ought to have that chance.
[00:40:57] Speaker A: Yeah. I just don't think the price point will be something that schools like that can afford. I think it will be impossibly.
[00:41:03] Speaker B: And you may be right.
[00:41:04] Speaker A: And that's part of why I think a school like Arkansas gets left out even under that circumstance.
[00:41:09] Speaker B: I don't think.
[00:41:09] Speaker A: And I don't think it's for lack of want to. It's just sometimes we want things and we can't have them. I'm planning a wedding right now. There's a lot of stuff I want and I cannot pay for it. There's a lot.
And sometimes that's just the way it is.
[00:41:20] Speaker B: Told you much. I hate weddings.
[00:41:21] Speaker A: Yes, I could. You're gonna love mine.
[00:41:23] Speaker B: You know, talking about. Talking about having nothing to do. We could do our whole podcast tomorrow, just me ranting about weddings.
[00:41:30] Speaker A: We could do a podcast with you ranting about a lot of stuff.
[00:41:32] Speaker B: We could, but like summer we're on weddings at this point in time.
[00:41:36] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:41:36] Speaker B: Well, during the summer we take the podcast off.
[00:41:38] Speaker A: Well, we don't have to. We could just come in and get. Get mad about stuff. We could fill a lot of time.
[00:41:44] Speaker B: Hey, did you see the stuff too, about all the. With SMU today in Utah and private equity and.
[00:41:52] Speaker A: Which. SMU is not a private equity thing.
[00:41:54] Speaker B: Okay, so what. What's the difference between what they're doing and what Utah's doing?
[00:41:57] Speaker A: It's a little bit.
[00:41:57] Speaker B: Utah is a private equity investment into.
[00:41:59] Speaker A: Its athletics program, but smu. So let me find what you sent me. So SMU and Utah have both done the same thing, and it's something that other schools have also done, but Utah is doing it slightly differently. So this is from Ben Portnoy from Sports Business Journal.
SMU is slated to announce the formation of Mustang Partners, a new commercial revenue generation division of its. Of its athletic department. This is something that Clemson has done, Michigan State has done. A handful of schools have done this. They have made this commercial revenue generation division separate thing.
[00:42:29] Speaker B: Basically, they're going out and getting concerts in their stadiums, I think.
[00:42:32] Speaker A: So It's. It's one of those.
[00:42:34] Speaker B: I know George Straits going to Clemson and I'm wishing I was there.
[00:42:37] Speaker A: But I don't think you have to have this in order to do that. I mean, like, Arkansas has had concerts, right? Haven't they? And they don't have this. And it's not a super common thing, but it's something that I think is going to become more common.
[00:42:48] Speaker B: And I'm not saying concerts is the only thing that you do.
[00:42:50] Speaker A: No, no.
[00:42:52] Speaker B: It's probably a branch that is equipped to go out and acquire these type of events on a More frequent and large scale.
[00:43:01] Speaker A: Yes. For example. And this, the name of this kind of tells me something. Utah has created one called Utah Brands and Entertainment llc which feels like totally. It feels like something outside of athletics almost. So. But what Utah has done that is differently is they are partnering with a private equity firm. They are the first ones to do this.
Clemson, Michigan State, smu, all these schools that have these sort of other revenue generation things that are sort of related to the athletics, but not quite. Those are. Those do not also have an injection of this private equity money. The Utah one does. And that's why it's new and different.
What that means we'll kind of see.
I would recommend if you're interested in this. Ross Dellinger from Yahoo Sports wrote about the, the Utah private equity deal. Specifically it would. It's expected to generate $500 million, I don't know over the course of over how long, but it is. It includes the creation and shared ownership of a for profit and an entity to operate athletics, business and financial elements outside of the traditional university framework, which is that Utah brands and entertainment thing.
So it is an. A private business that is an offshoot of the athletic department. So I guess in that way similar to like what a Razorback foundation is, but not doing the same thing. But it's something that like, it's not foiable, for example, it is not technically part of the public university thing. It is a separate business that is sort of a branch of the athletic department.
[00:44:27] Speaker B: It's not foiable, at least until you take it to the courts and figure out what they have to say about that.
[00:44:37] Speaker B: This goes back to.
I don't know that our minds can quite comprehend how different this is all going to look in four or five years. I don't like it.
I don't know if I like it. I don't know if I dislike it. I'm just saying it's like the people who are really forward thinking are doing things that I told you this. It's like five years ago.
We get three or four headlines a day. They'd be like, wow, we would have been shocked. And I was like, oh, that's just Tuesday.
[00:45:08] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:45:09] Speaker B: And so this is kind of that deal. It's like this is. This seems like it's very. What SMU and Utah are doing is very. I don't know if cutting edge is the right word, but certainly it's ahead of the curve.
But I don't know that we're shocked because we know that these teams are in such a need of an infusion of cash and especially smu, because they're not taking their television revenue from the ACC for several more years.
[00:45:36] Speaker B: They're just going to great lengths to find new ways to keep themselves afloat, so to speak.
[00:45:42] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's all changing. It's all different. I feel sometimes, the way I often feel about it is I wish it would just stop changing. I wish wherever it is we're going, I just wish we would get there. I'm tired of it being different every year.
[00:45:58] Speaker B: But that's not college football. No, you're not college football. And I would say beginning, and maybe even before, but Certainly with the 1984 Supreme Court case, the NCAA versus the Board of Regents of Oklahoma, it has been constant.
You know that you're going somewhere, but it's a constant pushback to get to that point of progress. And I don't see that changing anytime soon.
[00:46:22] Speaker A: Yeah, it's just interesting how quickly it changes and it feels like. And I guess this is a good question for you, since you've been doing this longer than I have.
[00:46:31] Speaker B: What's that supposed mean?
[00:46:33] Speaker A: You're old.
[00:46:35] Speaker A: Does it feel. I mean, and people say this, but I'm interested for your perspective.
Does it feel like things change faster now than they used to? Because to me, it's like I'm new to, you know, all of this is new to me. I've only been covering, you know, I've only been in my career for what, four or five years? So if, you know, this is a chaotic four or five years. But it's kind of like the question of, like, is life worse now than it was in the 80s or whatever.
[00:46:57] Speaker B: I don't know if it's worse, but, like, I think the House settlement is the perfect. The perfect embodiment of this. The House settlement. A long time ago, you would have had like a four or five year Runway to know that, hey, once we get to this point, this is what's going to happen.
And then when the House settlement actually, you know, you had like 10 months to prepare for it, and really only about three months to implement it once the actual settlement was approved by the judge.
So it's. Yeah, I mean, there's no doubt it's changing a lot fast. Things are changing rapidly. And that's why, you know, it's like 12 playoff teams right now. I'm not gonna be surprised if they totally bypass 16 and they landed a number in the 20s or the 30s.
[00:47:42] Speaker A: I'll be so interested. And this is something I think about in A lot of different contexts, but I'll be so interested in what, you know, like your kids, for example, when your kids are my age, like, what will they. What about college football? Will they be, like, nostalgic for.
Gosh, you know, because to us, we're like, this is so bad. And it's nothing like what I grew up with.
[00:48:00] Speaker B: I mean, my son thinks.
[00:48:01] Speaker A: But they'll have grown up with this, so what will it be like for them?
[00:48:03] Speaker B: My son thinks Vanderbilt is a football power.
He thinks Indiana is one of the greatest football programs ever.
You know, I mean, so there's a couple of, like. I mean, seriously. I mean, you know, he's been watching college football for a couple of years now, but, like, that's his perception. That's his perception of the game. Very strange.
[00:48:21] Speaker A: Yeah, but I'll be interested. Yeah. How, like, kids that grew up with the playoff and, like, getting excited to watch, like, what will that play?
[00:48:26] Speaker B: But see, this excites them.
[00:48:27] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:48:28] Speaker B: They don't care about bowl games. Yeah, I don't think they do. At least.
[00:48:31] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:48:31] Speaker B: Brian doesn't. All right, appreciate you being here. We appreciate you being with us, too, and hope that we see at our website, wholehogsports.com or back here on our show tomorrow. Have a great day, everybody.
